When I hand somebody my business card they see "Ludwig Keck - artist, photographer ...". I consider all my photography to be art, although not all of my art is photography. Clicking a shutter, on a studio camera, on a phone, or on a kid's toy camera, creates an image that in my view is art. In your thoughtful essay you use the words "vision, skill, and a commitment". I fondly recall walking with a friend in a park and when I raised my camera he asked, "what do you see?" We both had the place in front of us, yet the question clearly illustrates that we see the world differently. Vision is that first part to the art of photography. Seeing something that captivates and leads to an image is the first step. Developing the skills to capture and interpret a scene so the photographer's feelings and message can be passed to others is the passion of photographers. And it takes dedication and commitment to achieve the level where one can say honestly, "I am an artist, a photographer".
I am so glad to read this, Ludwig. Seeing something that captivates and leads to an image is the first step. So true. Thank you for visiting and your comments.
Great article Juliette - as an occasional but enthusiastic photographer this is helpful and inspirational. There is an everlasting debate about the point at which craft becomes art - I think the artistic element is present when the creator was intentional about conveying some kind of meaning in the image beyond the merely functional. It can help to step back from your specific question about photography to ask the same questions of other mediums - not all drawings are art for example and what about architecture - is that art? And is bad art still art or is there a (subjective) point at which something is not achieving that which defines art?
May the debate continue. For now I’m off to take some pictures..
Hi, absolutely the same questions could be asked about other mediums. If you ponder that one for a while, then you start to see how the lines blur even more. It all points back to intention. Thank you so much for visiting and for your comments!
Such a thought provoking article! I think this goes back to being human. We humans like to sort, categorize, label. It’s how we make order of the world. Perhaps art comes into play when we disregard the labels. When we create because that’s what we’re compelled to do. Whether we call ourselves photographer or artist is really about communicating to another human what we do, as concisely as possible and not about who we are.
So true, Alicia. Labelling is a natural human exercise. I think we're very uncomfortable tossing labels but when we can, it's so freeing. Thank you for visiting and for your comments!
Why have boundaries at all. As you point out, art is subjective. Period. From where I stand, whatever labels you want to attach to me or my art are your business. I’m the final arbiter of my efforts. Great thinking and very well written. Thank you for the art you made.
I read this post for the second time today. I have been a photographer since I was 8 or 9 (1960-61), and if I think about this question at all, I have to say I have never considered myself an artist, nor am I invested in being thought of as an artist by others. A photo I make may be seen as art by someone (eye of the beholder and all that). I do not make photographs to express myself. I do not make photographs to express some grand philosophy or polemic. I do not make photographs to display technical prowess. For me a successful photograph expresses itself, that is, the photo expresses that which is photographed. If my aim was for you to see me in the photograph then I would make a self portrait. If I were a studio photographer controlling every element of an image I might feel differently about this question. If a photograph of mine speaks to you I would prefer it speak in your voice, not mine. I do write about thoughts or feelings my photos bring up for me in posts and notes on Substack, but I do not mean to tell you what to think or feel about them. In fact I am quite happy if an image of mine speaks to you in a way that introduces me to a new perspective. Among the many photographers I know, I find I am alone in this approach to photography.
Hello! Thank you so much for stopping by and reading. I appreciate your perspective and it's an interesting one. I think whatever you want to call yourself is valid, which is my point. We are all the drivers of our own vehicles!
Today someone told me, "you're a gifted photographer" to which I said, "thank you so much but you know, most times I just pick up a camera, disappear and then wake up and there's a photograph, so I feel unworthy of the title gifted photographer. Maybe gifted meanderer? disappearing artist?" I hesitated on publishing this because while I find titles/labels sometimes necessary, I also dislike closing gaps.
I too do not use photography to necessarily express myself, though at times I do. Photography is many things to me in ways I don't have words to express. I like the thought you mention of a photograph of mine speaking to you but in your voice, not mine. That's a really great thought and I want to mull that over more. You've given me good things to think about, thank you.
Lastly, I do consider myself an artist because it's the closest word that matches up to how I navigate the world in my mind and in my need to create. Photography is not my only game. There are other forms of art for me.
Anyway, I don't think you're alone in your approach and I don't think I'm too far off - or at least, I aspire to some of the perspectives you maintain. Thank you again for your comments.
Capturing an image for information is not art. It may be journalism, it may be documentation, it may be a snap shot. Art suggests intent. A way of "seeing" to bring to others. There has to be definitions, lines drawn, otherwise language has no meaning. We are all artists, we are all fascists, we are all rich. But we individually should not be constrained by definitions. I can seamlessly move between my fine art photography and journalism. I'll define myself for myself and let the world such as it is arm wrestle over it.
I consider myself to be a photographic artist. Taking it one step further, specifically a fine art photographer. Same thing, with an added adjective. I even chased the diploma to validate the achievement. If anyone hasn't seen photographs of the exhibit's layout at The Museum of Modern Art's "Family of Man" exhibit, take a look. scroll down when you get there. https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/2429?
Edward Steichen speaks a bit about the case for photographic art in the press release at the same link.
Thank you for putting this subject forward Juliette.
I love that Ken! I read the press release. It's fascinating to read his words and I will have to print that out for myself. Thank you for introducing me to it. Thanks also for visiting and your comments!
got the ‘bad gateway via the link - but that particular Exhibit & Book is ‘seminal to me.. to me ? it was ‘the moveable feast - ‘captured by the witnesses & partakers .. for all to see ! The ‘what condition the human condition was in .. via Imagery & Context ‘that TOO ME THERE ! Can say the same re ‘Minimata - W Eugene Smith.. & The Walk To Paradise Valley.. 🦎🏴☠️
Perhaps just photographer’s intention. Whether he/she wants to make art… and eventually doesn’t. Whether just wants to catch what’s there in front… and occasionally does 🖼️ art
I think I know which article you speak of that influenced you to write this and I was a bit put off not just by that article itself but the comments it encouraged. I don’t think it’s right to judge another photographer as being pretentious just because they call themselves an artist.
For me personally, there is a lot of intent that goes into my photos from start to finish. I go in with an artistic goal so why can it not be considered a form of art just as much as someone who paints or sculpts? It’s just a label to describe the intent behind what you do and I think people should not have to feel shamed for the way they describe their personal work.
I appreciate you writing this and the thoughts you shared. It was well worded and I think helps create a more open mind and acceptance of others and their intentions whether they go by photographer or artist.
Thank you so much, Ronald. I had an immediate reaction to it as well, but wanted to sit with it for a while to really think it over. I came out of that feeling as you do - about the intent that goes behind my photos and about the limitations of labels. I appreciate you coming by to comment and thank you for sharing!!
Great article. I think that from the moment one frames the image you've made an artistic choice as a photographer. The breadth of photo types is no different than the arc between graphic art and abstract art. We are all creating something that would not exist but for our action.
Love this debate. I've read and thought about it several times, mainly from the articles of Guy Tal. Regarding myself I don't care much about the label and I never called myself an artist in a presentation or whatever. I think usually, and I may be wrong, a painter or a musician don't introduce themselves as artists, although it's implicit that they are. But then again, art is everywhere around us. Can be in our lunch plate, in the design of our computer, in a mathematical formula or a snippet of code.
When I hand somebody my business card they see "Ludwig Keck - artist, photographer ...". I consider all my photography to be art, although not all of my art is photography. Clicking a shutter, on a studio camera, on a phone, or on a kid's toy camera, creates an image that in my view is art. In your thoughtful essay you use the words "vision, skill, and a commitment". I fondly recall walking with a friend in a park and when I raised my camera he asked, "what do you see?" We both had the place in front of us, yet the question clearly illustrates that we see the world differently. Vision is that first part to the art of photography. Seeing something that captivates and leads to an image is the first step. Developing the skills to capture and interpret a scene so the photographer's feelings and message can be passed to others is the passion of photographers. And it takes dedication and commitment to achieve the level where one can say honestly, "I am an artist, a photographer".
I am so glad to read this, Ludwig. Seeing something that captivates and leads to an image is the first step. So true. Thank you for visiting and your comments.
.. i’ve a post about this .. hiding in plain sight ..
its about ‘poetry prophecy & religion.. all in one
.. it’s also occurred to me that ‘hypermedia - baffles peoples here
.. if you can’t be a pirate .. be a desperado .. MediaTribe .. 🦎🏴☠️🇨🇦🎬
Great article Juliette - as an occasional but enthusiastic photographer this is helpful and inspirational. There is an everlasting debate about the point at which craft becomes art - I think the artistic element is present when the creator was intentional about conveying some kind of meaning in the image beyond the merely functional. It can help to step back from your specific question about photography to ask the same questions of other mediums - not all drawings are art for example and what about architecture - is that art? And is bad art still art or is there a (subjective) point at which something is not achieving that which defines art?
May the debate continue. For now I’m off to take some pictures..
Hi, absolutely the same questions could be asked about other mediums. If you ponder that one for a while, then you start to see how the lines blur even more. It all points back to intention. Thank you so much for visiting and for your comments!
.. hypermedia .. convergence 🦎🏴☠️🧨
Such a thought provoking article! I think this goes back to being human. We humans like to sort, categorize, label. It’s how we make order of the world. Perhaps art comes into play when we disregard the labels. When we create because that’s what we’re compelled to do. Whether we call ourselves photographer or artist is really about communicating to another human what we do, as concisely as possible and not about who we are.
So true, Alicia. Labelling is a natural human exercise. I think we're very uncomfortable tossing labels but when we can, it's so freeing. Thank you for visiting and for your comments!
Why have boundaries at all. As you point out, art is subjective. Period. From where I stand, whatever labels you want to attach to me or my art are your business. I’m the final arbiter of my efforts. Great thinking and very well written. Thank you for the art you made.
I appreciate that Ken. "I'm the final arbiter of my efforts..." Very well said! Thanks for reading!
I read this post for the second time today. I have been a photographer since I was 8 or 9 (1960-61), and if I think about this question at all, I have to say I have never considered myself an artist, nor am I invested in being thought of as an artist by others. A photo I make may be seen as art by someone (eye of the beholder and all that). I do not make photographs to express myself. I do not make photographs to express some grand philosophy or polemic. I do not make photographs to display technical prowess. For me a successful photograph expresses itself, that is, the photo expresses that which is photographed. If my aim was for you to see me in the photograph then I would make a self portrait. If I were a studio photographer controlling every element of an image I might feel differently about this question. If a photograph of mine speaks to you I would prefer it speak in your voice, not mine. I do write about thoughts or feelings my photos bring up for me in posts and notes on Substack, but I do not mean to tell you what to think or feel about them. In fact I am quite happy if an image of mine speaks to you in a way that introduces me to a new perspective. Among the many photographers I know, I find I am alone in this approach to photography.
Hello! Thank you so much for stopping by and reading. I appreciate your perspective and it's an interesting one. I think whatever you want to call yourself is valid, which is my point. We are all the drivers of our own vehicles!
Today someone told me, "you're a gifted photographer" to which I said, "thank you so much but you know, most times I just pick up a camera, disappear and then wake up and there's a photograph, so I feel unworthy of the title gifted photographer. Maybe gifted meanderer? disappearing artist?" I hesitated on publishing this because while I find titles/labels sometimes necessary, I also dislike closing gaps.
I too do not use photography to necessarily express myself, though at times I do. Photography is many things to me in ways I don't have words to express. I like the thought you mention of a photograph of mine speaking to you but in your voice, not mine. That's a really great thought and I want to mull that over more. You've given me good things to think about, thank you.
Lastly, I do consider myself an artist because it's the closest word that matches up to how I navigate the world in my mind and in my need to create. Photography is not my only game. There are other forms of art for me.
Anyway, I don't think you're alone in your approach and I don't think I'm too far off - or at least, I aspire to some of the perspectives you maintain. Thank you again for your comments.
Capturing an image for information is not art. It may be journalism, it may be documentation, it may be a snap shot. Art suggests intent. A way of "seeing" to bring to others. There has to be definitions, lines drawn, otherwise language has no meaning. We are all artists, we are all fascists, we are all rich. But we individually should not be constrained by definitions. I can seamlessly move between my fine art photography and journalism. I'll define myself for myself and let the world such as it is arm wrestle over it.
he he! Well said, Mark. I keep repeating the word "intent" and you mentioned it here. That's key. I wholeheartedly embrace non-constraint.
well said.. - ‘lightening in a bottle .. or gallon jug of ‘shine ..
“art is what you can get away with .. Wayne Dorey
but in the same spirit - i shoot to share - live life - play fair ..
& it’s the photo image that finds me .. and mostly surprises me ..
it’s all ‘docu’ .. neither ‘Fine or Personal .. just reflects moi !🦎🏴☠️🎬
I consider myself to be a photographic artist. Taking it one step further, specifically a fine art photographer. Same thing, with an added adjective. I even chased the diploma to validate the achievement. If anyone hasn't seen photographs of the exhibit's layout at The Museum of Modern Art's "Family of Man" exhibit, take a look. scroll down when you get there. https://www.moma.org/calendar/exhibitions/2429?
Edward Steichen speaks a bit about the case for photographic art in the press release at the same link.
Thank you for putting this subject forward Juliette.
Cheers!
I love that Ken! I read the press release. It's fascinating to read his words and I will have to print that out for myself. Thank you for introducing me to it. Thanks also for visiting and your comments!
got the ‘bad gateway via the link - but that particular Exhibit & Book is ‘seminal to me.. to me ? it was ‘the moveable feast - ‘captured by the witnesses & partakers .. for all to see ! The ‘what condition the human condition was in .. via Imagery & Context ‘that TOO ME THERE ! Can say the same re ‘Minimata - W Eugene Smith.. & The Walk To Paradise Valley.. 🦎🏴☠️
I believe definitions are fluid. They change in different situations and context. I for one resist boundaries. Great read!
Thanks Shital, most of my photographer friends think like you 😊
:)
Perhaps just photographer’s intention. Whether he/she wants to make art… and eventually doesn’t. Whether just wants to catch what’s there in front… and occasionally does 🖼️ art
Thanks George. Obviously I agree :)
I think I know which article you speak of that influenced you to write this and I was a bit put off not just by that article itself but the comments it encouraged. I don’t think it’s right to judge another photographer as being pretentious just because they call themselves an artist.
For me personally, there is a lot of intent that goes into my photos from start to finish. I go in with an artistic goal so why can it not be considered a form of art just as much as someone who paints or sculpts? It’s just a label to describe the intent behind what you do and I think people should not have to feel shamed for the way they describe their personal work.
I appreciate you writing this and the thoughts you shared. It was well worded and I think helps create a more open mind and acceptance of others and their intentions whether they go by photographer or artist.
Thank you so much, Ronald. I had an immediate reaction to it as well, but wanted to sit with it for a while to really think it over. I came out of that feeling as you do - about the intent that goes behind my photos and about the limitations of labels. I appreciate you coming by to comment and thank you for sharing!!
Great article. I think that from the moment one frames the image you've made an artistic choice as a photographer. The breadth of photo types is no different than the arc between graphic art and abstract art. We are all creating something that would not exist but for our action.
Thank you Paul! So true and very well-worded. Thank you so much for your visit and comment!
Love this debate. I've read and thought about it several times, mainly from the articles of Guy Tal. Regarding myself I don't care much about the label and I never called myself an artist in a presentation or whatever. I think usually, and I may be wrong, a painter or a musician don't introduce themselves as artists, although it's implicit that they are. But then again, art is everywhere around us. Can be in our lunch plate, in the design of our computer, in a mathematical formula or a snippet of code.